How to Avoid Legal Problems when Buying Pre-Construction Condos

People who bought pre-construction condos years ago are now struggling to close the transactions due to changing market conditions and rising interest rates. 

Mark Morris, a real estate lawyer, is dealing with many such cases. Morris explains the current falling market is causing many buyers to be unable to close their transactions, leading to legal problems. He advises buyers to secure large deposits to protect themselves in case of a breach. He also suggests that buyers should hire lawyers who specialize in real estate to navigate through potential issues.

Guest: Mark Morris, Legalclosing.ca Professional Corporation

Mark is a professor at the Lincoln Alexander School of Law and a regular resource for real estate brokers and lawyers through the Ontario Real Estate Legal Discussion Group. He’s won many of Law's top awards including, L'Expert's Rising Star Award, Canadian Lawyer's Most Influential Lawyer Award and the Financial Times' Maverick and Mover Award.  In addition, the previous firms that he co-founded and built have won the Financial Times Innovative Lawyers Award and the Canadian Business's Startup 50 Award.

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Recorded in Sep 2023

Transcript

Desmond Brown (00:01):

On a few of my podcasts, we've talked about changing market conditions over the past year since the Bank of Canada started raising interest rates. We've talked about how things have really slowed down and how important it is to use different strategies if you're thinking of buying. However, when a market changes, there are people who get caught in between these markets. And today I'm going to concentrate more on the people who have bought pre-construction condos years before they've been completed and now it's time for completion and they've run into problems. So despite these contracts being legal and binding, we're seeing a lot of situations where these people are simply refusing to close the transactions. Actually, they just can't close. And it's led to a lot of stress and for those involved a lot of legal problems. I'm Desmond Brown and today on, so the 6ix I speak to a real estate lawyer who's seeing a lot of these problems with deals and is going to talk to us about how he deals with them and what could Happen. Mark Morris is the principal of illegal Closing.ca And he joins me today on Sold in the 6ix. Mark. Thanks very much for being On my podcast today.

Mark Morris (01:28):

Oh, I greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me.

Desmond Brown (01:30):

So you're always busy Closing Deals, but I'm hearing you're also spending a lot of time trying to keep some deals Together these days.

Mark Morris (01:40):

I don't think I'm unique in that respect. I think that's actually the job of a lawyer and actually it's not only to keep the job and things together, it's also sometimes to even guide clients through breach because we've entered into a very different market. It used to be the case that people would beg, borrow and steal if they didn't have the monies to close on their properties and the knowledge that their property had gone up significantly in value. So it was just for a temporary period of time and then they'd be able to resell. And a rising market effectively lifts all boats, cures all problems.

Desmond Brown (02:12):

Does it ever.

Mark Morris (02:13):

But As your users are well aware, or your listeners, excuse me, we're no longer in that market. We're in to some degree a falling market. And so the reverse is really true. There are quite a few people who look at closing as catching the falling knife, are unable to do it, and more importantly are unable to even get temporary bridge financing because they don't see temporary bridge financing as anything but temporary. They don't believe that they can realize the values that they themselves are paying. And So we're in a very different market where different legal needs present themselves. And so that is most of what my day, my week, my month, and I would unfortunately say my year has been this past year.

Desmond Brown (03:01):

So in my introduction here, I mentioned people who are caught in between markets And I Guess these are the people you're Dealing with. Basically they're someone who has Bought firm, somebody who's bought and just said may not have to sell their property. And it Said, you know what? I don't want to carry through with this because the market's falling.

Mark Morris (03:22):

Yeah. The vast majority of people who are caught between markets are not people who are buying in the resale space because if you think about how a resale deal works, you sign an agreement to purchase and sale, it's three months later and you're closing. In other words, you have to have a striking lack of foresight or understanding of how markets work in order to sign up for an agreement and then suddenly find yourself in a position where You can't close It three months later. Not to say that doesn't happen, that happens actually all the time, but that's not the regular breach that file that presents itself. Rather, it is the length of time that exhibits itself in the new construction space that creates the discrepancy that you've referred to. And as a result, it's primarily the new construction files that are presenting themselves in our office as problems. New construction are of course, and have been treated for a long time as futures contracts, meaning that effectively someone could buy and then realize whatever the price was five years later. And in a rising capital market and rising real estate market, that works great. But the converse is true. Oftentimes people who purchased in 2019, 2018, 2020, and who had expectations of a certain interest rate and who had expectations of a certain sale price upon Realization of the product Are finding that their assumptions have been totally undermined by market condition. And as a result, they find themselves in a very different place than they ever envisioned themselves to be. This is made worse, by the way, by the fact that particularly in the new build space, Ontario entered into a new territory over the past 10 years or so where assignments were seen As A natural way for Canadians to make money. And as a result, many, many people entered into the assignment market or into the new build construction space with no intention or capacity to close, always understanding that there was an exit in the form of an assignment. But the assignment market itself has turned largely a liquid of late.

Desmond Brown (05:22):

Oh my God it almost non-existent.

Mark Morris (05:24):

Correct? Correct. There's simply is no demand. And I'll talk about why that is in a minute, but there's a good reason for it. And that speaks directly to immigration and the like. But effectively now we have a problem where there is no exit for a bunch of people who never purchased with the hope of actually closing. And so the problem to which you allude is primarily I'd say 90 to 95% of cases that hit my office in the new build space, not the resale space.

Desmond Brown (05:53):

Okay. So does anything, I guess get back to this, the interest rates obviously play a part in this, is that correct? Mark?

Mark Morris (06:04):

Interest rates are the main catalyst, but it's not clear the interest rate itself. It's the interest rate over time.

Desmond Brown (06:10):

Yeah. Okay. And then we've got these people that are, like you said, that just don't have the capacity to close or are not closing. What are some of these consequences now that you're seeing?

Mark Morris (06:21):

Well, the consequences are fairly grim. So let's just talk generally about what the law is. Let's deal with that first. So when someone can't close out an agreement, whether it's a new build or whether it's a resale, doesn't matter. The deposits that have been paid are liquidated damages. So what that means in English, because lawyers really like speaking of languages that aren't anything but English. But let me tell you what it means in English. Liquidated damages mean that even if the builder goes ahead and resells the property for more, that is to say ends up financially ahead from the breach, those damages are still the builders. But in addition to that, the builder is entitled to the delta, the delta being the differential between what is sold for and what they had originally sold for.

Desmond Brown (07:10):

Yes.

Mark Morris (07:11):

So let's use practical numbers. Let's say a builder or someone sells a property for a million dollars and there's a deposit of $200,000. If they resell for $1.1 million, then the builder is going to net that $200,000 as damages for the breach. If they however sell for $700,000, then they will net the $200,000 and they will be further entitled to go after that $100,000 differential.

Desmond Brown (07:41):

Yeah, we find that in the resale market as well. If people breach, that's the same type of formula.

Mark Morris (07:45):

Absolutely. It's this exact same, it's the exact same math, but what that means is mere breaching of an agreement, while it means the loss of your deposit can have greater consequence than that, should the builder or should the seller choose to pursue a buyer who defaults?

Desmond Brown (08:02):

Well, it could get very, very messy for them. And this was quite interesting because overseeing a lot of projects that have been stretched out, stretched out because of labor shortages and so on, and then they finally come to fruition where people have to close and they can't close. And then we're also seeing a lot of builders that are backing out of deals just saying we cannot finish the projects now for some one reason or another. So where do the purchasers of these condos, and in most cases we are talking about condos, where do they stand?

Mark Morris (08:36):

Well, to be very fair, builders are not allowed out of their contracts. There's this perception amongst the general public that a builder once committed to a contract, has any for less obligation to complete than does the purchaser. No, I mean there are certain exceptions in the Teon addendum where they're allowed to go ahead and get zoning compliance and they can put a bunch of gates in that they have to meet, which if they don't meet the deal is terminated. But if they're past those dates, which is usually what happens after construction begins at a project, termination of these contracts is incredibly painful. Now it was the case that certain contracts were terminated through the insolvency or the bankruptcy process. So if a builder just goes utters up and I'm allowed to use PG expressions on this show, I was warned in advance. So if the builder goes utters up and ultimately goes bankrupt, then yeah, technically an insolvency trustee could go ahead and void contracts.

(09:35):

But here's where law mixes with business. It is the case that the new build construction market is at a Nader. That is to say it's really at a low point. There isn't anything that's selling. And the only two projects that I know of that are selling that being LSQ and PTC out in Pickering have done so at really great risks to both purchasers and the vendors. And so far as they've taken basically 5% deposits per year and have construction periods to 2029. That's the reason they're investing in them. It's because there's hoping that the market overcomes whatever hill it is that we've been part of, but that's not the way most of these projects actually take place. So to answer your question, market conditions are not good for builders. Meaning that if a builder halfway through a project, we're in fact to cancel the existing contracts.

(10:30):

Take the one for example, it's currently with an insolvency trustee downtown. Well, if they were to cancel that contract and try to resell, they might very well, probably very well would find themselves in a position where there are no takers for the product because the high-end market is dead. But so is the condo market and they will have a stump where 1.6 billion has already been spent building to this point, meaning that they have ongoing costs of 150 million a year, a month, whatever it is that they're undertaking with no contracts to show From a business perspective, it simply doesn't make sense to release people from the contracts at the present time. And so the idea that a building once under construction is going to relieve you of your obligations is not something that builders are doing because of market condition now. And the idea that you can get out of an agreement is not the case When someone goes insolvent, the contracts continue to exist and the trustee takes them over.

(11:31):

And if they find that it's advantageous to have you complete, then they'll continue to appoint someone like Ellis Don or anyone else to these contracts and have them complete. But a be all and end all is that that is worst case scenario where a builder has gone, as I say, utters up and is using an insolvency trustee for the courts to get out of its contracts. And even then given market condition, it's not likely that they will in the normal course of things, so long as the carryon schedules have been surpassed, meaning that they've begun construction, there's really no way out for the builder or the buyer. It's a firm and binding contract. That isn't to say by the way that certain builders don't try. They don't try to, some real estate lawyers aren't the best like any professional, good and bad. And sometimes you get a letter from a builder saying, Hey, we have to cancel this unless you agree to a hundred thousand dollars more. And then people go to their lawyer and their lawyer says, I suggest you sign it. And then you look at these lawyers and say, what are you talking about? But a good percentage of them too. And at that point there's a track and there's a contract between you guys or you've agreed to take on this extra cost. That can happen too. But in the grand scheme of things, generally a contract is a contract that has to be adhered to by both sides and if they don't damage this flow.

Desmond Brown (12:42):

And just so listeners are aware of the one that you spoke about, that project one is at Young and blue, just I guess it's number one, blower Street West is what the address is, correct? Something like that. So you talked about you're spending 95% of your time dealing with these right now. What type of direction are you giving your clients on this?

Mark Morris (13:06):

Well, the one is a very particular instance. I mean, if you want me to talk about that particular instance, I'm happy to

Desmond Brown (13:12):

You if you have clients involved with that. Sure.

Mark Morris (13:15):

I do have clients involved in that, and I told them really not to panic, and I'll tell you why. I'll bring you into the thought process. Well, I explained to you why it is that insolvency trustee is simply not going to release people of their contracts because it makes more sense to Continue forward with the Contracts that are in place. So from a market perspective, and given that they're already 1.6 billion as the project, someone is going to continue it. But what's interesting with the one, and I know that we're here to talk about general stuff, but I've kind of read the insolvency trustee proceedings for the one. What the one has done is Sam Rahi, who is the developer of the one actually invoked the insolvency process Himself. I believe this is pure conjecture specifically to rid himself of a thorn in his side

Desmond Brown (14:04):

That that was a partner, right? Sam

Mark Morris (14:05):

Had equity interest with his partner, Jenny Coco and Jenny Coco and Sam did not get on. In fact, there are salacious gossip in the news and in the courts as to their nature of their dispute. And by all accounts, Sam and Jenny positively hate each other to the point where the project just is not working as a project because the sides can't get along. By going to the insolvency trustee and basically Jenny and Sam both borrowed money in 2019, that money was due in owing and wasn't paid. The insolvency trustee therefore went to court and said, screw this management. We want permission to complete the project. But they then said, and the person we want to appoint as the developer for this project was not EllisDon or anyone else who has deep experience in actually being able to do this. It was Sam Mizrahi and they gave him an extra $315 million to do it, which isn't enough to finish the project, but is still a serious vote of support.

(15:00):

In other words, if you read this, what's actually happened is Sam probably got his bank KEB bank to actually invoke the insolvency process such that Jenny was relieved of her authority to make decisions on behalf of the company, invest and imbue that authority within KEB bank who then gave it back to Sam, and now Sam can make unfettered decisions on behalf of his lender in order to complete the project. So this to me doesn't sound worrying. If you read it the way I read it, you see it as basic business. And actually Sam has simply gone ahead and done what he needed to do in order to get this project built. But your question wasn't with regards to the one and the particularities of that project. Your question was of course, okay, well what happens generally in these instances? Exactly, yeah. And generally in these instances, it is not a problem.

(15:50):

So long as the deposits themselves are protected and deposits themselves are protected in every instance where it is a condo, I mean, don't get me wrong, you lose the value of the money. You could have used the money over the course of five years to buy other. I'm not talking about the expected value of the money, but you made a bad investment. We all have stocks or bonds or whatever it is that sometimes don't work out. In this instance, the asset preservation, you still get the capital back. That's not a bad deal. Heck, I invested in going in 2019, I guarantee you that I would've been preferred to be in the position of getting back my money than what actually happened to my Bitcoin invest.

(16:32):

So the be all and end all is if it's a condo, you're protected by the condo act. If it's a freehold for up to a hundred thousand dollars depending on the purchase price, you're protected. And in most instances, even above that, you're protected. There is a loophole in Tarion that I'm not going to get into right now, which means that with freehold land, non-con wise land, if in fact you've paid deposits in excess of the Taron protections, which could be anywhere from 60 to $100,000 depending on the purchase price, then there is a possibility that the deposits were released. And in an insolvency provision, you may face a loss. It happens incredibly infrequently. I haven't seen it in years. It's just there is a possibility. And so we have to kind of do a bit of an analysis there. But in almost all cases, 99% of cases deposits are assured, and even if they aren't assured, it's just a minimal amount usually over and above the tear on amounts and the losses are not large other than the value loss and the fact that you've made no money on this.

(17:45):

I mean, if you think about it, the interest that's been paid on deposits pursuant to the condo act were 2% less than the bank act and the bank rate, sorry, the bank rate and the bank rate itself was under 2% until about 2021, meaning that if you have any deposits as for example, but once since 2016 until 2021, you made nothing, zero interest on that money. And then only after 2021 did you make interest at a rate of 2% less than the bank act anyways, which is like 4% of your market. So don't think you're getting rich on these things, but there is capital preservation and okay, we all make bad investments. You'll find another data shot

Desmond Brown (18:26):

For sure. And most of the people that get into these type of situations like the one and other pre-construction condos, they are looking long-term on them when the projects are actually completed. And then they can either resell them after the buildings are registered through the condo act or like you said, assign them. But the assignment market is nowhere to be seen these days. It's just a lot of frustration. I'm getting. A lot of them sent me a lot of emails sent to me by other agents with assignments right now, and people just want

Mark Morris (18:55):

It. I mean, the market is moving, but you have to be willing to take the sunk cost of your deposits. So we're still seeing tons of assignments and there is a floor to the assignment market, which is 20% because that's how much your deposits are for people. Don't put in more money than that, but I will tell you, assignments are moving if you're ready to lose your deposits. The thing is, there is still price discovery happening in our markets where sellers and buyers haven't yet met on an agreement as to the fact that sellers have to take that hit. Sellers are used not taking a hit, it's teaching sellers a bit of a new language. Some sellers are willing to take that hit now more will be willing as these things come due. And as interest rates remain in the high five-year, fixed being 6%, 7%, they will inevitably have to take their hit due to necessity, which is the ultimate thing that always drives down markets.

Desmond Brown (19:52):

Yeah, it sure does. Let's talk about the resale market now and what people can do to protect themselves if they have a property for sale on the market and they sell it. Let's talk about deposits and so on, just in case the buyer does not close because of whatever circumstance comes up. And I talked about in between markets, and that's usually when we find most of the problems. If somebody has bought firm and then didn't get their house on the market fast enough to take advantage of the market that they bought in, and all these things start to go south.

Mark Morris (20:30):

So I mean, the best way to protect yourself is non-legal ways. And in that case, it means getting a large and hefty deposit traditional way. It always has been, get a deposit, get it early, get it in cash, get it into a brokerage trust account. If you have $150,000 in a deposit on a million dollar property, even if someone walks away, you will have $150,000 to mitigate that loss. That's good. If you have 10,000, 20,000 not so good. I mean this should be bleedingly obvious, but there it is. Now, I mean there's sort of legal ways you can protect yourself. I mean, recall, if someone is buying in a corporation, then that corporation you should assume has no assets, meaning that you won't have any lawsuit or anything else beyond the deposit. So do make sure you have people's personal names down. The more personal names the better because that gives you more and more assets upon which you can seize if you need to bring an agreement to purchase and sale suit. There are of course all sorts of remedies that exist for a buyer that faces breach or for a seller that faces breach. But in the instance of most normal transactions, most people look to the deposit and then say, I don't want to really engage in a lawsuit unless their loss is extraordinary. And so the best and really most viable form of protection is a large deposit.

Desmond Brown (21:55):

And again, talk about deposits. So a lot of people just assume that, okay, we have the large deposit and we're going to get it if they don't close. However, if the buyer for some reason wants to dispute that, then it doesn't happen a lot. I know the courts have been ruling more in favor of just giving those deposits to the sellers, but there are times when things get tied up and that deposit gets tied up for a long time if the buyer wants to go the route of disputing it through the courts.

Mark Morris (22:24):

Right. So what you're referring to is not the law, what you're referring to. Well, it is the law, but it's not the law that lawyers care about nor buyers or sellers. It's the law that brokerages care about because under reba's and to be renamed Tressa, of course under section 27, it states or in the regulation and the interpretation of the regulation, it stipulates that monies are only to be removed from a brokerage trust account in one of three instances. One is completion of the transaction, two is mutual agreement between the parties note, and I'm saying this because I know you have a lot of realtors that are listening, it is not a damn mutual release. It is a mutual agreement between the parties that is all RICO requires. Okay? Not that mutual release form, not year 1 22. Not that a mutual agreement between the parties required or alternatively a court action.

(23:16):

So what does that mean? That means that if the buyer doesn't agree, court action is necessary. Now, court action, it's not sometimes or it's more prevalent, will always, if it is as simple as a buyer breach that has been properly documented, court action will always knit that release of deposit. And what's more, it doesn't cost very much. It costs between about five and $7,500 and about half of that is given back to you as damages to get it released. So if you're looking at a hundred thousand dollars, really it's going to cost the seller $5,000 in litigation fees in order to get that should the buyer be obstinate and refused to accept this. And it's a pain. It's a pain because most people don't go to court and then you have to go and get a lawyer and you have. But the good news is that the best type of law from a profitability perspective, not from a social justice perspective or anything else, are those parts of law that are repetitive and that are based on the same facts.

(24:14):

Because when you have that, then you can have legal shops that basically build out operations surrounding those same set of facts. So people like Greg Whedon, who's a colleague of mine and Ika, Shaw, Taylor and others, have basically built out litigation shops predicated upon what's that? You pay, have a deposit, the buyer breached, not signing the mutual agreement. Boom, same set of facts. I already have my motion materials. Let's go sign my you're done, finished. Here's your timelines. We go. And so don't think it's all that complex either. It's kind of like a known outcome with almost an assurity. And if you go to the right lawyers that know what they're doing, they are running volume-based shops predicated upon these sets of facts. So it's not hopeless for you to recover this either though, knowing that it costs between about 5,000 to $7,500. Some astute buyers may choose to say, alright, listen, you give me 5,000 bucks back, you can take the 95 because that's going to be your court costs anyways. And then they might be able to negotiate that if they're lucky.

Desmond Brown (25:19):

Yeah, and then see you later. Exactly. You mentioned in corporations or corporations, and we see that quite often on our agreements of purchasing sale where it's a numbered company buying a property. And to me, sometimes it can be a red flag. And the things that I try to do is to, like you said, get more signatures, find if we can get people personally liable for anything that goes wrong, that would be great. But sometimes we just have numbered companies. Another thing that they'll put in the agreement sometimes is the right to assign it. So to me, these are all kinds of red flags that I see, and we just try to, like I said, try to get large deposits and fend off anything that may happen because it's all dollars and cents sometimes if it's a builder who's buying a property, and like I said, the market changes, they're just back out and sometimes just walk from the deposit.

Mark Morris (26:16):

Sure. Well, there's a couple of different things that you can do. First, you can have, as you say, someone sign fine. You can also have someone guaranteed. You can put in a line that basically says, this person guarantees an indemnifies this agreement in its entirety. You put it into Schedule A and have them sign in a whole rate on every page. There you go. And if you get that guarantee, it's the same thing as a personal signature. Don't draft that yourself, bring that to a lawyer just to approve it just before you actually put that in. But that's perfectly viable. There's no issue there at all as to the right to assign, there's broad misconception amongst realtors in this province born largely of our new build contracts, which has now flowed into our resale that you need the seller's permission to assign. You definitely do need the seller's permission to assign in new build blend where the contract specifically stipulates that you need the seller's permission to assign.

(27:17):

But the OREA forms do not have such a prohibition. And in the absence of such a prohibition, anyone can assign anything that they want anytime. That does not mean that, that they do not remain responsible. The original parties does not remain responsible. The clause you're referring to where it says this can be assigned is not inherently problematic on its face. In fact, it's quite limiting because if the buyer doesn't put that in, then they technically can assign to anyone that they want. But if they say that they can assign it to this corporation, then they can only assign it to that corporation under a basic reading. They've actually limited their obligations more than anything else. The problem is the secondary line to that paragraph, because the second line often says, and upon assignment, the original buyer shall be relieved of any obligations here under, and if it says that that's where it's a problem, if it doesn't, if it just says A, they shall be allowed to assign.

Desmond Brown (28:14):

Sure

Mark Morris (28:15):

You can assign, but it doesn't relieve you of your responsibility. And then good agents would put in a clause that says, notwithstanding this assignment, if they have that such a clause in Schedule A, which you don't need to have, it says, notwithstanding this clause, it is the case that the original buyer remains liable should the new assignee fail to close. So it's not just a matter of saying, oh, thereby be an assignment clause. The details matter as they always do in law. What does it actually say is critical. Okay,

Desmond Brown (28:42):

Can you put a clause in a schedule A saying that the seller must approve any assignment? Would that supersede any of the pre-printed things?

Mark Morris (28:53):

Of course it would because section 26 of your agreements of purchase and sales stipulates specifically that anything written and drafted by the parties supersedes anything in the standard form. That's also a basic principle of law, by the way. It's not something that needs to be drafted. That's a common law principle. But yes, it would definitely supersede in the same way by the way that if you write down that tenants are to be assumed without crossing off vacant possession in paragraph two of the agreement, tenants to be assumed in Schedule A supersedes the vacant possession clause of schedule two, which is standard form.

Desmond Brown (29:26):

True. Yeah, it's true. Okay, excellent. Now just getting ready to wrap up here, mark, in your well on the Facebook page that we are on, which is the legal Facebook page, which is incredible. The information that is shared on there is just fantastic for realtors like me. You were on this weekend and you had your little rant, and one of the things that stood out to me was basically some of the frustration that you're going through dealing with some of your colleagues, other legal professionals, and telling us agents, when people are looking for legal representation, they often go for the cheaper lawyer and some of the problems that can arise if that lawyer is not as competent as he or she should be. And I guess in a nutshell, you said you get what you paid for.

Mark Morris (30:21):

Yeah. So first off, I'll throw out a free advertising for my site. It's called the Ontario Real Estate Legal Discussion Group, and it's a collection of lawyers and realtors in the province that are seeking to better their understanding and their knowledge of the law as it pertains to traits. So we have about 14,000 members. I would encourage all of your listeners to actually get on, and we also have a subgroup now for landlord tenant. I can't claim to be responsible for that one. I'm giving credit for it actually. It's a lane page that actually has been the driving force behind that as a paralegal. And our paralegals, there are excellent giving advice. I of course restrict my knowledge to those things I actually understand, which happens to be what we've been discussing here today and that type of stuff, which is the content of the main forum, my rant, which between you and I was a bit self-serving because implicit in that was, please use my firm. So

Desmond Brown (31:15):

I do the same way in a roundabout way, let's just call it what it is.

Mark Morris (31:21):

My rant was actually born of real frustration because I actually have a couple of people who I've come to realize are asking me any endless questions, but never actually referring files to my office. And I've come to realize that effectively the reason they're doing it is because they're leaning on me for support when things go wrong, and they're leaning on process and price when things go right, which is actually very convenient and actually makes a lot of business sense. But when you're talking about legal services, you're talking about a differential of a hundred or $200 between firms like mine that try to price mid-market, not high, just mid-market and low cost providers. And the difference is acute. Those of us who spend our time understanding law, those of us who understand this area of law, understand it to be a specialty area the same way any other type of law is a specialty here. And as a result, understanding how to navigate the particularities of problems and really saying the devil is in the details, is inaccurate summation of really almost every file that's in my office.

(32:32):

As a matter of course, real estate lawyers try to communicate with a good deal of clients every single day and try to get through a whole lot of matters. And so we're generally open to speaking to people continually, but we're getting to a point now, particularly in the real estate cycle, where we are not by born of necessity, not of desire shutting our doors just because we just don't have the capacity to take more on starting out with a lawyer who actually understands their stuff. Starting off with a lawyer who actually can navigate you through breach or problems or anything else is really a critical decision point in a way that it wasn't in the past. And that was the content of my ran. And I would encourage those people who are selecting a lawyer to think about at least selecting a lawyer whose primary job it is to do real estate, plain and simple, and who understands this.

Desmond Brown (33:27):

And as we wrap up here, people can get in touch with you by going to legal closing.ca. And is there any other way?

Mark Morris (33:37):

Oh, well, I mean smoke signals work, but really the way that most people find me is through that bat symbol. So if you just put it up and put it up in the sky, I appear. It's just magical. You'll love it. It's great. And it's Halloween now too, so I come in costume. It's great.

Desmond Brown (33:50):

Okay. Yeah, so there you go. Realtors, if you're listening out there, remember Mark, people who are buying or selling out there who are listening, remember Mark as well. Mark, thank you so much for joining us. Just an incredible wealth of information here, and I'd love to have you back on again,

Mark Morris (34:07):

Desmond, it's a real pleasure. Thank you very much for having me

Desmond Brown (34:08):

There. My pleasure too. And that's our latest episode of Sold in the 6ix. Now, before I thank everybody for this podcast, I just want to touch on one of my previous podcasts, actually two of my previous podcasts, about the Ontario Realtor Wellness program that was being proposed and all of the opposition that was happening with a group who we're going to fight our real estate board over this. Well, just this week, there was a letter sent on behalf of this group opposing by a lawyer to the Ontario Real Estate Association, basically threatening legal action down the road if the Ontario Real Estate Association does not change this mandate or this mandatory, as you want to call it, inclusion in this wellness program or benefits program. So standby. In the next podcast, we will get back to this a little bit and just keep you updated on what's going on.

(35:07):

And for today's podcast, I wanted to thank my producer, DoDowns of Stories and Strategies for producing it. And also, if you like this podcast, please subscribe, leave a rating, and send it to a friend. To get in touch with me, you can email me des@desmondbrown.ca and you can also follow me on all of the social media platforms. My handle is Desmond, the 6ix and is number 6 ix. And if you're a realtor outside of Toronto and need someone to look after your clients who are either moving to or from the greater Toronto area, please keep me in mind. I promise that your clients will be well looked after. Next time. I'm Desmond Brown.