The 15-Minute Neighbourhood

Imagine a world where everything you need is just 15 minutes away. Where you work, shop, where you get health care and schooling.

A new RE/MAX head office report says this is happening and it’s called the 15 Minute Neighbourhood: Lessons for Small Communities.

Is something like this possible in Toronto?

Guest: Michael McLachlan
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michael.mclachlan/
Instagram: @michael.mclachlan
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-mclachlan-23b11b31/
E-mail: michael@remaxhallmark.com

Desmond can be reached at:
Web site https://inthe6ixrealestate.com/
Email des@desmondbrown.ca 
Twitter & Instagram - @desinthe6ix
Facebook page 

Transcript

Desmond Brown (00:00):

Think about this, you live in a neighbourhood where everything you need is just 15 minutes away. Your job, your kids' school or daycare, all of the professionals you need, like doctors and dentists, all the grocery stores and retail outlets, even the movie theater all within 15 minutes. And how much would this type of neighbourhood change your quality of life? Well, RE/MAX'S head office just released a report this week and it's called The 15 Minute neighbourhood Lessons for Small Communities. And today on Sold in the 6ix, my guest and I are going to discuss whether a neighbourhood like this can actually be developed.

(00:55):

Michael McLachlan on the leadership team here at my company RE/MAX Hallmark, and he joins me today on Sold in the 6ix. Welcome Michael.

Michael McLachlan (01:03):

 Thank you so much for having me. Des. Pleasure.

Desmond Brown (01:06):

Yeah, finally. I mean I've known you for a long time, since you were a young man. We won't get into that right now anyway, Michael, so is this a utopian concept, this 15 minute neighbourhood and do you think it's feasible?

Michael McLachlan (01:22):

That's a great question. I think in a sense it is a little bit of a utopian concept in that it's striving for perfection and I think it's an admirable goal to strive for having everything you could possibly need your life arranged within 15 minutes of your house or your home. It's a great thing to strive for, but I think in practical sense, it's not always going to be that case. It's a great thing to have the goal to move towards so that we can have a target at least.

Desmond Brown (02:00):

And I think the target's good. So with the study here by RE/MAX, they were gearing it more towards the smaller communities. But living here in Toronto, Toronto is a city of many, many neighbourhoods. And I remember years ago I grew up in the East end and I didn't have to go downtown for anything. Everything was here. I mean I remember just really being, so I a little bit brash about it saying I didn't even have to go downtown. I can go over to Queens Street and buy some clothing. My grocery store is close by. My doctor is here in the East end as well. My dentist is here, my kids go to school here. And it was great living in my little bubble in the east, but now I'm finding that we still have to rely on the other areas of the city for our needs.

(02:53):

And in Toronto, oh my gosh, hard it is. It took me an hour and 50 minutes the other night to get from my house and the beaches to Mississauga to take my kid for his basketball training. And I gave myself an hour and 20 minutes to get there and I was still late by 20 minutes. So it's really frustrating. But we could do this in the city, especially with what we're going through would be, it would be amazing. I think.

Michael McLachlan (03:20):

Yeah, I almost the exact point is that we love having these walkable neighbourhoods, these neighbourhoods where you can exist at the point of pride living in the beaches, you're 15 minutes from everything your doctor's there, your work is there in the sense we are a super connected society. We want to travel to a degree. And taking your son to a basketball game is one of those instances is not practical to have one of his basketball games within a 15 minute walk because he wants to compete against kids that are kids, people that are not in his immediate vicinity.

Desmond Brown (04:00):

For sure. And the competition is not always just inside the city of Toronto.

Michael McLachlan (04:05):

And I think it's just so important that, but it's the daily stuff that you want to focus on that you can walk down, you can take a transit for 15 minutes, you can bike over to something. And I think that makes for a really quality neighbourhood. That's what people strive for. That's what people pay high prices for and get a high quality of life in that kind of a neighbourhood.

Desmond Brown (04:26):

Yeah, yeah, that's so true. So in this study, 72% of the respondents agreed that reducing commuting time and they're talking about commuting is the big culprit with all this, right? Because a lot of people have moved out of the city because they couldn't afford it here and this study was done as a result of the housing crisis that we have here.

(04:46):

But they say that reducing the commuting time to 15 minutes or less for work, further appointments for childcare to restaurants, entertainment, shopping and all of their other necessities would obviously improve their quality of life. Now what about you with your young family? How much would this make a difference for you?

Michael McLachlan (05:10):

And I would like to think that I both, you know, live, you're in the beach and I'm Pape and Danforth area for all intents and purposes. Yeah. I think I live more or less in 15 minutes city where I can reach most of my daily necessities within 15 minutes. Would I be able to give up in a car? No, absolutely not. I mean partially because of the job function I have and it's not, might not be a hundred percent practical with two young kids. I actually see people in my kids' school that have those bikes that have the bucket off the front where they can pile the kids into and they might be making a pretty strong commitment to not having a car.

(05:56):

And it's amazing. That can be practical for some people in a city and as a testament to the neighbourhood they live in that they can reach that kind of stuff.

Desmond Brown (06:07):

For sure, for sure. Yeah, because part of this, one of the recommendations in the report is adding bike lanes to all the major streets and of course implementing a fast and accessible public transport or transit system, which we have been struggling with here in the city of Toronto. Anybody that wants to take the Queen Street street car now, you know you've got a pack of lunch or an overnight bag, right? Hey it is really, really bad and more walking past is what they're saying and more sidewalks throughout the neighbourhoods. And I was just watching a documentary last night with Alice and it was about Jane Jacobs and how she fought against a lot of the new development that was going on by a guy named, I think it was Robert Moses in New York City, but a lot of it had to do with stopping major arteries, going through parks and so on.

(07:07):

But she went back and talked about sidewalks. She said that neighbourhoods should be built around what the residents needs are not the other way around. So walk through a neighbourhood and you see the children playing in the streets, you see the people walking to parks and so on and build it around what is most important to people and not vice versa to the commute to get people out into their bedroom communities outside of the city of Toronto. If we could do that, to me it's a little bit of a utopian concept, but at the same time it makes so much more sense.

Michael McLachlan (07:48):

 It just seems to provide for such much more of a holistic lifestyle rather than jamming a commute to the start and end of your workday. So you can have space around your home and a partial community out where you happen to live.

(08:09):

Having a short commute or a very accessible other amenities gives you some back so much more time in your life that you can spend with your family or elsewhere. So as choose.

Desmond Brown (08:22):

Yeah, for sure. It's much, much better balance and we will live longer.

Michael McLachlan (08:28):

But just to touch on the whole utopian idea of it, yeah it it's is because we are dealing with certain realities that we have, the city that we have that we've built that has been built up to this point and we kind of have to work within those constraints. And so we do have to add that density and make compromises along the way. And I think we've got a great building block because as you said, we're really a city of neighbourhoods and adding kind of gentle density into that and hopefully improving some affordability along the way, which would be nice.

(09:03):

I think that's a big hot button topic as well.

Desmond Brown (09:07):

Yeah, for sure. Well if we would talk about that in a second about the affordability because they talk about mixed neighbourhoods and diverse neighbourhoods and that includes co-ops and affordable housing as well as market value homes. But before we get into that, what they said in this report was that they were basing things on the mistakes that were made in bigger cities, which led to relying or for people relying too much on the car, which of course led to urban sprawl. But what do you think some of these mistakes were?

Michael McLachlan (09:40):

Well, to my understanding it's the idea of that commuter those commuter towns or that without significant public infrastructure like commuter lines or slapping everything on everybody onto a highway to get into work and then back out to the bedroom communities. At the end of the day, that puts a tremendous amount of strain on our infrastructure and to me at least doesn't lead to a fantastic quality of life if you have to sit in the car for multiple hours a day to get back and forth.

(10:16):

I think those are some of the mistakes. I think there's been other mistakes made in, if we're talking specifically about Toronto where they had some ideas about how neighbourhoods should be built and how integrated they would be built into the rest of the city. Or we hear about these certain areas of the city that are, I think the town was food deserts where they don't have a grocery store within say that 15 minute accession bill by walk or by publi transit. And so they have to go outside of the community to get those resources. And so that's kind of the opposite of a 15 minute city. If they've got a bunch of populations sitting in one area but they don't have groceries, you're having to go out of your community to get food several times a week.

Desmond Brown (11:11):

 Yeah, yeah, exactly. And hopping in the car, I may not just call in my producer Doug Downs here because when I told him about this story he was pretty excited about it.

(11:22):

And Doug, you had mentioned this is not new obviously, and I think explain a little bit more about what you had told me. Cause I thought it was fascinating.

Doug Downs (11:32):

Well, I do a lot of genealogical research and of course it's it you're basically getting old parish or church records and my research is England and France, that's where my ancestral roots are. And people lived basically in tiny concentric circles, usually market towns around the church in the parish and I dunno what the percentage was, but the overwhelming majority of people lived in what you and I would consider to be agricultural areas, small town, small market living within 15 minutes of where you're trying to get each and every time until the industrial revolution. And then the city started to burgeon

Desmond Brown (12:12):

And again then people had to go to where the jobs were or Yeah, exactly.

(12:17):

Just to survive

Doug Downs (12:18):

And the healthcare. Yeah, because we became more conscious of healthcare and sanitation, things like that.

Desmond Brown (12:24):

So Doug, what do you think? But you know, you've heard us talking about this and I keep going back to these utopian type of concept that we have here, but with the housing crisis that we have and the national housing strategy that was developed in 2017, they were supposed to, part of the plan was to develop 213 new units, but since then the demand has outpaced the supply and the population has grown by more than a million and it's mostly because of immigration. So what do you think one of the solutions would be, and looking at this report as well, I mean there's some pretty good recommendations here.

Doug Downs (13:06):

Build more houses, which means encourage more young people to get into the trades. We just need more and human nature. I know the opposite concept is in to build vertically more people living in a vertical space. I just think that goes against what most people want. We kind of want our own space. And was it Mark Twain is alleged to have said buy land because they're not building it anymore. Yeah, exactly. We all want a little slice of land.

Desmond Brown (13:41):

So the city of Toronto really hasn't turned you off and you still want to buy here. Well I recommend, and I always say this, get pre-qualified for your mortgage first and call my guy Jason Georgopoulos because he has 30 lenders that he can line you up with while he won't line you up with 30 lenders, he has 30 lenders and he will choose one of those lenders that is going to fit your needs best to get in touch with Jason. You can email him at jason g @ dominion lending.ca.

(14:19):

Yeah, I'll never forget that Woody Allen movie where he had, he was given that piece of land and he had it in his hand in the palm of his head. Notice my father gave me this piece of land,

Doug Downs (14:30):

Six inches of topsoil. It's all you're buying.

Desmond Brown (14:32):

I was thinking of putting a guest house right around here on it. And so I forget what movie that was, but it was hilarious.

Doug Downs (14:38):

And it's a virtual world now too. It really is. I can't ignore that. Why Canada don't, we all live along the Southern strip? There's so much space, build more places and I think with internet access more and more high speed fiber optic lines, it seems to me that's where it's logically going. But what do I know?

Desmond Brown (15:01):

 A lot anyway. No. Yeah. Okay. So thanks very much for your input, Doug. Okay, so Michael, getting back to building what Doug had just mentioned.

(15:08):

So the report says it's important to build a mix of housing styles in each neighbourhood. I had mentioned it a little earlier, we would, and now we're coming back to it. So a certain amount of market housing, housing where people will come in and buy a home, a certain amount of subsidized housing and a certain amount of mixed housing in co-ops. Now when I think of the neighbourhoods, and you mentioned Pape and Danforth, not far from Pape and Danforth is the Bain Co-op. I think it's one of the first co-ops and that is smack dab in the middle of a very middle class neighbourhood. It don't that neighbourhood. Yeah. What do you think of that? What do you think of the concepts here of mixing and what it does for people and for the hope of people who are maybe in the lower income who want to move out of that?

Michael McLachlan (15:56):

I think it's tremendous. I think we have to promote that integration into, we can't just wall ourselves off and all this is the high income income area. That low income, I mean that only promotes division in our society. I think we have to be, we're in this together all choosing to build this country and this society. We can't just keep certain people away. That's not the Canadian brain. We want integration society. I think something like that, I mean it would be tough to achieve that similar, I mean that Bain co-op is, it's a big complex, it's a lot of space. It'd be tough to achieve something of that scale again in today's today's market. But we can try and find equivalents where we're getting a mix of different people from different backgrounds, different from different economic status and all walks of life into neighbourhoods. So we're not just building these single areas.

Desmond Brown (17:07):

 Growing up, I grew up in a working class neighbourhood at cost Wind, Gerard.

(17:12):

I was raised by my two elderly great aunts, my Jamaican great aunts, and we didn't have much, but we lived in a neighbourhood where we saw people's parents going to work in the morning coming home at the end of the day. And we saw their type of lifestyle that you had to work to get what you wanted. And it gave us hope. It gave my brothers and I hope that this is what we can do to get out of the situation that we're in. And that's where having that neighbourhood of us being lower income and then seeing this working class neighbourhood and not very many mid middle class people mind you, but just people that were out there and doing what they had to do to get by in a daily basis and to provide for their children so they could get an education and move up to move up in life.

(18:14):

And as a parent, you want your children to have something better than what you had too. So that was what I learned. I learned the work ethic from the people in my neighbourhood and I think this is a great idea. We have to mix more people in, not close off and have gated communities and so on. It's just better for all of society as a whole.

Michael McLachlan (18:38):

A tough thing. Yeah, I think, you know, were presented with it a great atmosphere where you saw the opportunity and you saw the ability for you to provide for a better life and to strive for something in growing up. And we have to, that's the ideal. I mean, that's where we should be building our communities. You had a platform to build from.

(19:02):

How do we recreate that in our cities in even the suburbs? It's the balance of different types of different types of different incomes and areas and different cultures so they can experience that.

Desmond Brown (19:19):

Yeah, for sure. And my kids, it's so great because they eat everything. They've been exposed to everything. They love their sushi and their Thai food and their Greek food and their Jamaican food. Just it's great. It's great for us because we love to eat as well. So we don't have to worry about them being so fussy that anyway, the other part of this report, it says, or it's recommended that they transform empty or underutilized commercial and retail and parking spaces into residential dwellings. Now we've been going with COVID, A lot of the towers downtown are empty, not completely empty, but there are a lot of floors that are empty.

(20:00):

A lot of people are still working from home. And then you've got these parking lots. Well, what do you think of, of last recommendations here?

Michael McLachlan (20:07):

I mean that's complex. I know we've got now the different segments of commercial real estate come in and out of style every once in a while. Industrial is so hot right now that it's tough to get those properties in talking to my commercial colleagues and office space, and I'll make a distinction here. So the A office space is still very much in demand now in North America, public globally. Actually it's the class B and the Class C. So those older generation know not as big on amenities that are no longer desired and they're having this hollowing out and the question is what to do with them and various people. There was a RE/MAX report actually fairly recently, I want to say even last month where they were talking about the commercial report where they were talking about potential conversion of office spaces into residential.

(21:07):

And it sounds great in at first blush, but it's a pretty complex thing to do because the floor plates don't really support going to residential. And so it's a complex question of what to do with these properties. And unfortunately I think some of those are going to have to be torn down and redeveloped into other uses rather than just a straight up conversion, just flipping it over to residential because the facilities there, the plumbing, the electrical was just not set up for that kind of a thing and it's too hard to convert it into a different use.

Desmond Brown (21:42):

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah, because yeah, that means a lot of the windows don't open for starters, there are no decks. And I was just thinking who wants to live on the 50th floor? But we do have some towers along the way, along the waterfront of the 50th floor.

(21:59):

I mean I can't go on the balconies when I show these. I just, I'm clinging to the wall.

Michael McLachlan (22:05):

Balcony are such a funny thing in real estate. I don't know if you've had a listing recently of condo with no balcony. They're tough to sell.

Desmond Brown (22:14):

They are. And that's what I tell my condo buyers. I'm saying they'll send me stuff, this one looks really, really good. I said, no, I can't sell you that. It doesn't have a balcony. It's easy to buy right now, but when it comes time for you to sell it, we're not going to be able to sell it that easily because it has no balcony. So it's really important to have balconies. It really is. So I can see what some of the towers that the changing of those is. One thing, if it's a rental housing thing, it's a little different, you know, will be able to rent it out.

(22:45):

But the things like the parking spaces, and I think the city of Toronto has a number of those green P parking lots, which they are selling off as well for redevelopment. So we're trying to fill in all of the different spaces along, along the streets and the neighbourhoods to battle against this lack of housing supply that we have.

Michael McLachlan (23:09):

And I think that's a great, and to my understanding in most of those cases when they sell off a green pea ot about, while I would development reclaiming a portion of that or the same number of spots underground underneath that condo as a green P parking lot, I'm not sure if that's uniform across the entire city when they do that. But to me that sounds like a great approach to it. I mean certainly there's a complex and there's delay to get those parking spots back and then accessible, but kind of seems like the best of both worlds I think.

(23:43):

I strongly believe like that we're going to have to a lot more dense in these neighbourhoods that we live in right now. And I think there is a limit to that. I don't know if you're familiar with the, there's a condo proposal, the corner of Pape and Danforth right now.

Desmond Brown (23:58):

Yeah, I've heard about it. Yeah. What is it, 72 stories or something?

Michael McLachlan (24:01):

 I think it was in, it's in the forties, but that's still pretty. Oh, it's the forties, okay. It's still pretty, you know, look at that in Toronto they've got those placards that they put up, what is it like six by eight feet or something like that with a picture of the massing of it. And it's got to be, I think the closest, the highest other building in the area is what, 16 stories? I think the retirement complex just north of where we used to have the tape office and that's 16 stories.

(24:28):

And so this is what, four times higher, three times higher at the most. It just seems so stark and out of place. And I think there's got to be a better push for a gentle density. And so why don't we have as rights to build 10 stories along dance forth rather than putting it all on the corner there. Which admittedly it's going to be at the intersection of two subways lines when that eventually gets built, the Ontario line, but it just seems like it's going to be a lot of density in one spot. I can spread out a little bit more.

Desmond Brown (25:06):

Yeah, you're right. This should spread it out. Okay, so I'm just getting ready to wrap up here, Michael.

(25:12):

A lot of people my age right now who've been in the city for a long time are set up, actually I have listed probably about four properties over the last month where people are leaving the city. Okay, what do we have to do to keep people like you? You're young. Well, how old are you now anyway? Cause I remember you were just a little boy. Just go see, go to your home with you're, oh my goodness, okay. Oh yes. I'm not that old. I'm not. Okay. So what do we have to do in this city to keep people like you and younger and so they will stay here with their families and actually help to build this city into the potential that it has? I mean, right now it's just, like I said, the people who are older are just fed up. We're going through so much construction.

(26:14):

I think in the long run it may be great for the city, but at the same time I'm afraid of losing your generation, our bright minds that will help to make this city, like I said, the fantastic place that it should be.

Michael McLachlan (26:31):

Good question. And I think this city has to, and I believe it has to maintain its sense of optimism and I think that's driven by what people are perceiving as opportunity. And I think the city has it. I think we run the danger of affordability forcing a lot of otherwise very bright people out of the city and having to seek their opportunities elsewhere because they just simply can't afford to, can't afford here, stick around until they are able to or afford it. And I think that's got to be one of the biggest challenges we have in Toronto, in Ontario right now is affordability.

(27:22):

And I don't know if there's an easy answer to that. I think I strongly believe that one of the answers is supply of housing, but that there's a lot of lead time to get the amount of supply that we need of housing.

Desmond Brown (27:38):

Yeah, I see you. I often say it's one of the growing pains of wanting to be a world-class city is what Toronto's going through. We are the fourth largest market in North America after New York, Los Angeles and Chicago. And we've always wanted to be this world-class city and we wanted to be a Paris and a London and a New York. But with that comes huge growing pains as I just mentioned. And that is the demand for housing, which means that we have a lack of supply, which have in turn jacks up the prices for people to live here. And like you said, we're losing a lot of people because of that.

(28:24):

We just can't afford to be here. We are the economic engine of the country. We're one of the top countries in the G 7. And you're right. I'm not sure if we do have a solution for it overnight, but if we can at least make a dent by building more housing, a little more affordable housing somehow so our future generations can stay here. I think we have some hope. I really do think we have some hope. Hope. I think it's a million different things that have to happen or we have to keep just trying and trying solutions. Yeah, that's what we can do. Great. And I know you're very involved in the business here with RE/MAX Hallmark so you don't see yourself leaving, do you?

Michael McLachlan (29:07):

No, no. I wouldn't. I no interest in all, not no interest, but this is my home, Toronto's my home.

(29:14):

This is where I want to build, this is where I want to contribute. This is where is where I live.

Desmond Brown (29:19):

Great. Michael, thank you so much for joining us here today on Sold The 6ix. And I'm just so proud of you and what you've accomplished in your 40 years. I see. I remember when you were just a young boy, but oh my goodness, your parents must be very, very proud of you too, and you make such a huge contribution to the company and we're glad to have you. So thank you very much for joining us today.

Michael McLachlan (29:40):

Thanks Des, appreciate being on there. It was a pleasure.

Desmond Brown (29:44):

Yeah, it was great to have you. That's Michael McLauchlan, who's from our leadership team here at RE/MAX Hallmark and that's our latest episode of Sold in the 6ix. So if you're like Michael, you have hope for the city of Toronto.

(29:57):

If you're my age, well you might be leaving, but have hope for your children and your grandchildren. The city is going to be great again. Or maybe it already is. It just doesn't seem that way. I want to thank my producer, Doug Downs of Stories and Strategies for producing this podcast. And of course, if you like this podcast, please subscribe, leave a rating and a review and forward it to a friend. If you need to get in touch with me, you can email me at des@desmondbrown.ca and please follow me on all of the social media platforms and my handle is Des in the 6ix. Until next time, I'm Desmond Brown.