Closing the Doors on a Career – Tess Kalinowski

Anyone who follows real estate knows the name from her Toronto Star byline. Tess Kalinowski is synonymous with solid information and good stories in real estate.

Spanning a 40-year career, the last chapter of it focused specifically on Toronto real estate, Tess shares some of her favourite memories and stories.

One key takeaway, she never found it difficult to find new and interesting information, the challenge was always in finding the right people to illustrate the story.

Guest: Tess Kalinowski

Desmond can be reached at:

Web site https://inthe6ixrealestate.com/ 

Email des@desmondbrown.ca 

Twitter & Instagram - @desinthe6ix

Facebook page 

Transcript

Desmond Brown (00:01):

I've always believed that it's important to be well informed. I grew up in a Jamaican household where the radio was always on in the morning and we listened to the news every morning. Back then, it was tuned into C F R B radio. I remember Wally Crowder, I think it was in the evenings. We watched the news on tv. We didn't have cable back then, and we watched Channel nine C F T O News, which is now known as CTV News Toronto. And I was lucky enough to work as a reporter for seven years at C F T O, also known as CTV News Toronto. During my journalism career, we also had a newspaper delivered to our house every day. At first there was the Toronto Telegram. Then after the tele stopped publishing, we got to Toronto Star. People rely on the news, not just to find out what's going on in the world, but to help them make major decisions. And some of those decisions include what are they going to do in real estate today? On Sold in the 6ix, we're going to speak to a fantastic journalist who was on the real estate beat for the largest newspaper in the country, and now she's retiring.

(01:02):

Tess Kalinowski has been on my podcast many times, and today, I'm sad to say this, it'll be her last time on the show as a real estate reporter for the Toronto Star, Tess, welcome back to Sold in the 6ix.

Tess Kalinowski (01:29):

Thank you so much, Desmond. It's a pleasure to be here.

Desmond Brown (01:32):

Oh, it's always so great to have you, and this is going to be sad not speaking to you regularly when you're not on this beat. Okay. Oh, you, you've been a reporter for 40 years and you've been on the real estate beat for the last seven years, so how much did you enjoy covering real estate? Or actually I should ask you, did you enjoy covering real estate?

Tess Kalinowski (01:52):

I did enjoy it. I don't think would've, the star isn't big on making people do things they don't want to do, so I don't think I would've stayed with it if I didn't like it. It's certainly been a hot topic beat the entire seven years. I don't think there's been any really fallow periods where there were no stories to cover, which occasionally happens, most beats have some downtime. There were a couple of summers where I'd sort of say to the editor, there's not much happening because all the agents have gone away. But apart from that, it's been really busy.

Desmond Brown (02:25):

Then let's give our insight, let's give our our listeners a little bit of insight on what it takes to be a reporter and especially in real estate. So you were like 40 years as a journalist, and then you covered many beats. I think the last beat you covered before real estate was transportation, correct?

Tess Kalinowski (02:41):

Yep, that's right. I covered TTC.

Desmond Brown (02:44):

Yeah, go. Yeah, that's a beauty right now, man. Oh my gosh. But anyway, yeah. So how did you adjust going from transportation to real estate? And I know you met with me about seven years ago and asked me a few questions just to get yourself going.

Tess Kalinowski (02:59):

I was really lucky. I followed the great Su Pigg.

Desmond Brown (03:03):

She was wonderful,

Tess Kalinowski (03:04):

who also retired out of this beat, and she gave me a list of people to talk to when I started, and I dutifully followed up and did actually as I did with you, you were on the list, got out and met them or phoned them up and just sort of introduced myself. And I have to say, I wouldn't have been able to do it without the kindness of people like you who sort of steered me because there were a lot of issues that I completely didn't understand. I'm still not what you'd call a financial genius.

Desmond Brown (03:36):

Neither am I.

Tess Kalinowski (03:37):

Basic things about mortgages and stuff. I mean, I just have to make a sort of surreptitious call and say, Hey, what's a fixed rate? What's a variable? Maybe not that, but I didn't understand a lot of the implications of what can sometimes seem like minor financial changes, but I was just really lucky in having such lovely people to help me out.

Desmond Brown (04:04):

Well, but you always approached it really well. I thought, you know, would call me up and you would look for the stories behind the stats further, deeper than the stats. And you call me and you'd say, what's going on out there? The stats are showing this, but what are you seeing? And I always appreciated that with you.

Tess Kalinowski (04:24):

Well, because first of all, numbers are dry, and I have a hefty portfolio of stories that are only numbers because I do those stories every month. But really it matters on a deep level to people. I mean, if you look at the trajectory of housing over the last seven years, I started at a time when prices were just going up at tremendous levels where people were talking and writing about bully offers and bidding wars and foreign buyers, all that stuff. And really what I care about is, oh, so what does this mean to my young colleague who wants to buy a house if prices are rising that exponentially? So the greatest challenge of this job, and it's not unique just to this beat, but is finding people to illustrate the stories and that you've been helpful sometimes, but that is really the hardest thing. And there's, the media climate has changed in the last few years.

(05:31):

So it used to be put out a call out on, say, Twitter or a social media platform, a Facebook group or something, and people would be lining up to tell you their stories. Nowadays, it's almost hope hopeless to get people to, because the trust in the media is so low and people are so afraid that you're going to write something that portrays them in a way that comes back to bite them in 20 years because the internet is forever, but they're just not as responsible a lot of the time. So it's a real privilege and a real responsibility. The one I take the most seriously is to tell people's stories in a way that is fair and accurate and hopefully engaging. So that's really the biggest challenge of it all, not finding people like you who are, those were offered up in spades, finding the real people who are buying and selling the houses and looking for a house. That's been the biggest thing.

Desmond Brown (06:32):

Yeah, I always found that it was always when I was a journalist too, just finding those ordinary people to interview and to have that trust in me that I was going to tell a fair story. And I think real estate agents are people too.

Tess Kalinowski (06:47):

They are.

Desmond Brown (06:48):

And I know that on this beat, and Sue told me about this too, that sometimes you would write a factual story and you would get the hate mail from, and the hate calls from real estate agents because they didn't feel that you were portraying the market as it was today and so on. And I'm sure you've had a couple like that, right?

Tess Kalinowski (07:09):

Well, I've had, okay, so I, I've had agents who are annoyed because media only tell the downside of the story, but I don't write, I hope you read my stuff and I hope you engage with it, but I don't write for any one group agents, buyer sellers. I write for the people who read the Toronto Star, and if I'm not telling the story that I see as being the truthful one, then I'm betraying them and I'm betraying my employer because this is why people buy the Star. It's a trusted news outlet.

Desmond Brown (07:49):

Yeah, definitely.

Tess Kalinowski (07:50):

Yes, I have had people be nasty, and I have to say the nastiness has ramped up. It's actually pushed me away from social media in recent. I'm sorry, hear that in recent years that No, no, I don't think my experience is unique. I just think people are very quick to judge and call people out for things. You'll write a story about somebody who worked really hard to afford a condo or a home or something, and people say nasty things about them online. It's not stuff they wouldn't say to your face, and it's stuff if you call them up and say, do you want to talk about this? They wouldn't speak to you in that tone. No.

Desmond Brown (08:33):

Yeah, that also really turns me off about it too. That always seems like somebody trying, like you said, somebody trying to get ahead. They wanted some of these people that they're trying to pull them back, and I'll never be able to afford a house and all that. Well, I know there are a lot of people that can't afford in this city. They cannot. I understand that, but it doesn't give them the right to be so angry towards those who are trying to go somewhere. And yeah, we see that a lot.

Tess Kalinowski (09:00):

Yeah, I think it's it's born out of frustration because the situation seems so insurmountable to a lot of people.

Desmond Brown (09:07):

Well, we can just blame. We blame for everything. So a lot of people have preconceived opinions about real estate agents and the real estate industry. Did you have any of those before you came onto the beat? And if you did, has it changed by covering it?

Tess Kalinowski (09:33):

I think a lot of people think real estate agents aren't honest that they'll do anything for a buck, anything for a sale. That has not been my experience with the people I speak to on a regular basis. These people have been like yourself, you have a business, you have to build it, you have to protect it. However, I have been fortunate to deal with very what I think are quite ethical, people who will say, and there are a lot of ethical issues that I've covered all along that are still out there and people have their distorted opinions on them. Things like bully offers and compa bidding wars and should homes be auctioned off, double ending deals, things like that. Many of those things have bubbled up over the years, but I think mostly agents are thoughtful about them, and if they come down on the side of self-interest, at least quite open about it, it's like,

Desmond Brown (10:39):

Yeah,

Tess Kalinowski (10:40):

They'll say, well, how would I make a living if that happens?

Desmond Brown (10:43):

No, exactly. And there are some out there that cannot see past one deal of getting that deal through, jamming it through. And Jen and I are going, we have a new little segment called Naughty Agent, and we are running into, oh my God, some of the things that our colleagues are doing, they're not thinking past this one paycheck. Right. It's really quite concerning to tell you the truth.

Tess Kalinowski (11:09):

Well, you always think that CBC has done some tremendous work on real estate stories. People, not agents not being willing to show homes that are being sold by owner real estate agents telling other agents what a seller will take so they can get the bid in. Those have been fantastic stories, and I have to say, I often look at those hidden camera segments and think, who do you think is going to ever hire you again? Yes, you foolish, foolish person.

Desmond Brown (11:45):

Yeah, your career is over.

Tess Kalinowski (11:46):

Exactly right.

Desmond Brown (11:47):

But what we're seeing too with some of the disciplinary action from RECO they're just slapping on their wrist with fines, and I think we need more termination of licenses actually. I really do think so. And I know you've done some of these stories, like you said, CBC's led the way in some of these issues as well, but you can see how do these people keep their licenses? Drives me nuts.

Tess Kalinowski (12:11):

Yeah. Well, I think there's been a lot of talk about how RECO needs to have more teeth, but we're in a very sort of anti-regulatory climate right now in the province of Ontario overall, I think, and that they have given RECO some more powers, but I don't see that it's played out big time, which is I think what you're saying.

Desmond Brown (12:32):

Yeah, exactly. We can get into that in a whole other episode. So I was chatting with my wife Alice, and I told her I was going to be interviewing you today that you were leaving the real estate be, and she reads all your stories and Oh, when you should ask her, has Tess being on this real estate beat made her a more discerning consumer for real estate?

Tess Kalinowski (12:57):

Well, my philosophy, Des, we've talked about this, is buy and never move. You'll have to clean the basement if you move. Yeah.

Desmond Brown (13:04):

Well that's what I said to her too. I said, I know she's been in her place for a long time.

Tess Kalinowski (13:09):

I just can't clean that basement. Yes, it has. And one of the things I try not to do is be an authority, because I never don't care how long you've been on a beat. You're not the authority. You're just somebody who writes what authorities say, but you get a lot of information. So friends and family and other people will often ask me what I think of things. Yeah, I would say it's made me a more discerning consumer. When I bought my place, which is a town home, my agent said, you don't need a home inspection. I needed a home inspection, dammit.

(13:48):

And my agent was my parents' agent and good guy not complaining, still sends me Christmas cards all these years later, but I'm not sure he's the agent I would choose now. So yeah, it has made me a more discerning consumer and certainly in terms of over the years, it's been hard not to flirt with the idea of maybe investing maybe in pre-construction in this market covered. No stories been. Yeah. But I'll tell you, I've covered enough stories about condo cancellations that I would be very hesitant, very, very hesitant and very, very careful about the builder I chose.

Desmond Brown (14:40):

Well, the Bank of Canada raised the interest rate again, but don't despair because you can always turn to jason Georgopoulos to get the best rates and terms available for a mortgage. Jason has access to more than 30 lenders, so don't worry about the interest rate. There's a lot more to a mortgage than just the rate. To get in touch with Jason, you can email him at jasong@dominion lending.ca. Yeah. When you said you don't need a home inspection, words that should never come out of a realtor's mouth ever. And on that topic, what would, you said you wouldn't hire 'em as an agent today. What would you look for in an agent?

Tess Kalinowski (15:30):

I would look for somebody who didn't just tell me what I wanted to hear. If I were selling my home, I would ask the agent seriously what I should be pricing it at, and I would listen to what the agent had to say about their reasoning. I would look carefully at the comparables they're showing me, and in the end, I would know it's my decision, yes. But I would be listening very carefully on that front. As a buyer, I would look for an agent that does their work these days. It's very easy and it is the way somebody gets on your listings alerts, you send forward the email, they look at the place they either like to, would like to see it in person or not. I, I'd be interested in an agent who said, this does not look like much, but I sold one two doors down. Prices in that neighborhood are excellent. A school is excellent. So I think you should look at it even though it needs a new living room ceiling. Yeah, yeah. That's the kind of advice and insight and knowledge that I would be on the prowl for myself.

Desmond Brown (16:42):

Yeah. I think we're, especially in this environment where we're back to multiple offices and so on, yeah, it's always a good idea to try to find another way in. So it's not going for that property. As we always say, the HGTV property that everybody's going to bid on, and we had one actually last week where it was priced, we thought was under, it was going to go for a couple hundred over and we got it for just over the asking price because it needed a lot of work. We're the only offer. And we went in and looked at, okay, we've got to do this, this, and this, but take a look at what your budget would be, add that on. And that's what you were willing to pay anyway if you found something that didn't need any work. So I've got a happy young couple and we're bringing contractors in this weekend and a designer and yeah, that's a success story. And I wish I had a hundred houses like that where we didn't have to bid. And like you said, to look past what's actually there and what it could be.

Tess Kalinowski (17:46):

I find this, especially with younger colleagues, and when my parents were buying homes and this, they kind of passed this on to me because they were young when they had me. You have to be able to see past some of the cosmetics on a house. People today use the word turnkey to mean fully decorated. Right. All to my taste, whatever the flooring color of the day is, the paint color and that nicely hung tv, et cetera, with the sectional, that's what everybody's looking for. They're looking for the H G T V house. But if you can look past it, a house can be turnkey and you can renovate it while you live in it. All you have to do is have a functioning house. You don't necessarily have to have a stylish house to be in with you. They, because you work with experts, you can make anything stylish.

Desmond Brown (18:38):

You sure can. And I live with Alice and oh my gosh, we have gone through so many alterations in our homes in the 28 years we've been together. Oh my gosh, my poor kids. Are we doing this again?

Tess Kalinowski (18:55):

Well, Alice has good taste as look who she married.

Desmond Brown (18:59):

Oh Thank you. She does, she really does listen to her. Yeah. I listen, I, I know that the star tracks readership, especially online on how many people are reading certain stories and real estate stories get a lot of attention actually sometimes they're getting the most readers. What do you think it is about the general public that and why you're so fascinated about real estate?

Tess Kalinowski (19:29):

Well, I mean, it goes back to the thing I learned the first week I was on this beat. It is the biggest investment most of us ever make is in our homes. So unlike the stock market where our funds may be buried under some bank's name or whatever, we recognize the person behind the investment and we really want to track it. And I, it's everything from what is in style or in the fashion of the home to what the price is. And everybody's looking for a deal these days. So we have this one Saturday feature, which is one home profile and it's listed at a certain amount and is that the right amount? Or this home sold with 45 offers, or this one sold with only one your clients, everybody's got a stake in it. Even if you don't own it, you have a stake in the housing market. So I think that's the biggest part of it.

Desmond Brown (20:37):

And I walk my dog bump into people, we talk real estate, you go to parties, they talk real estate. Actually people talk to me more about real estate than when I was a journalist. I had a party and it was so funny, Alison, I used to joke and it's just like, she's a lawyer, I'm a journalist. We go to a party, we're in a corner by ourselves.

Tess Kalinowski (20:58):

Stay away from those two

Desmond Brown (21:01):

At least they invite us.

Tess Kalinowski (21:03):

I actually, I would have to agree with that when I used to go places and people would hear I was a journalist for the Toronto Star and be like, oh wow, that must be so interesting. What is Rosie Dimanno really like? How do they do those investiga? All sorts of questions. And nowadays nobody talks to me about anything but real estate.

Desmond Brown (21:23):

Yeah, but like you said, everybody has a stake in it one way or another, whether you're renting, whether you're buying, whether you're thinking of buying, and it's an investment. And that's what I always wondered too, when I took a look, when I take a look at the newspaper. So real estate is I guess categorized under the business section for the most part, but it's like vaulted past the business session to the main sections all the time. But in the end it really is. I guess they put it into business because it is an investment. Correct?

Tess Kalinowski (21:57):

Yeah, I think so. I think I can only speak to the star, but I think traditionally real estate is a business beat. And I started out, when I started out, I actually moved to the business department from the city department to cover it, but the papers changed and a lot of media have changed, and now it's a matter of what are our best stories of the day and where could they play? How do you make that business? So we all work, I'm part of a three person team and we work for the city department actually, but if we want to give some really good play to it to one of our stories and there's room, we'll take a business front. Everybody would rather be on a front than inside. Yeah, the paper. Exactly. Yeah, actually that's a really secondary thing. I think one thing I should have said earlier though is the star has recognized how big an issue housing and real estate are in this city, and they have really invested in the coverage. So it's myself, May Warren and Victoria Gibson who've been doing a ton of the coverage, but there are also some excellent general assignment business reporters. Feinstein comes to mind. She does a lot of stories that I can't get to or that they want, and she does a really good job. I think good coverage begets readers. This is what people are interested in. We've invested in it. People are coming to our paper to read it.

Desmond Brown (23:35):

So true. Tess, when you look back on your about seven years in real estate or covering the real estate beat, are there any stories that kind of stand out to you that will you think will always be dear to your heart or something you'll always remember?

Tess Kalinowski (23:52):

Well, I'm one to remember people more than stories, but there are a couple of stories that stand out to me for sometimes not for the best reasons. And it's interesting to me, I covered education. That was my first beat at the store, and I gave it up when I realized that I was going to have to go back every fall and do the first day of kindergarten story after a few years. I can't do that anymore. But real estate is the same way. Stories come around, the market goes up, the market goes down, and some stories are going to bubble up. And one back in around 20, oh, was it 2018, the housing market corrected, and maybe it was before that, maybe it was 2016, 2017. And I had done a story on a group of pre-construction buyers of Mattamy Holmes, really nice Mattamy Holmes

Desmond Brown (24:43):

And where are they located?

Tess Kalinowski (24:45):

Oakville. And oddly enough, just not far from my place, and these buyers had, they were good people. They had worked hard and they had saved and picked their moment to buy these pre-construction homes and damn me, didn't the market turn on them? And then of course, they're in a panic because they can't sell their first home for what they expected because the market's gone down and they're still on the hook for buying a home that actually isn't worth what it was when they purchased it. Well, that story got so much play and so much feedback. It was a bit full on for me. It was a level of attention I wasn't really accustomed to as a reporter, and people were not nice about it. That's when I sort of sensed the world was changing a little bit because people were very dismissive of these folks.

(25:44):

What did they think they were doing trying to buy one of these fancy homes in Oakville? Anyway, that said, this last year, year and a half has happened, and the exact same story came up again. And this time it was so, the vitriol was so sharp toward the buyers who were really caught, I mean really caught many of them newcomers to Canada on their second home because they had scrounged and scrapped to buy that first home. And it was just, again, this, what are they thinking that the market isn't going to affect them? How could they be so stupid? I mean, several of them were actually real estate agents who hadn't seen it coming. Oh boy, boy. Just that story has really, it's not just about the people who have had to struggle to procure these new homes that were kind of their dream homes, but also it's been a real eye opener in terms of how unkind people can be, sadly. And a real alarm for me on how the world has changed in its ferocity.

Desmond Brown (27:06):

Yeah, we touched on that same attitude a little earlier in the podcast with people,

Tess Kalinowski (27:12):

Really, really lovely stories. I mean, there's the tower house, you might remember that one. Yes, I did. It's not far from your neighborhood where this couple had renovated this tiny, they built this tiny shack on sort of the end of a laneway into a beautiful multi-story home. And I spent some time with them and it didn't sell the first time, and they put it back on, and then they moved along and they made jewelry for a living. And they were, yeah, the nicest couple. It was just such a pleasure to see them, this achievement, and then they were able to move on and say, okay, we've done that now. It wasn't the pinnacle of life. We're going to try something different now.

Desmond Brown (27:55):

And they did eventually sell or remember, it did take a while to sell that one. And you have mentioned that story to me before. I think we were doing, I think so a year route with you, and that was one of your favorite stories you said covering.

Tess Kalinowski (28:05):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, most of my favorite stories are negative ones. I was sad to say, just because they're, they're meaty. You get a lot out of them. So the foreign buyer's story is really one that interests me just because it came up again this week when I first started, there was this deep suspicion that Toronto was being bought up by foreigners. And I think people had this idea that it was a zillionaire players from Hong Kong who were buying up condo towers in the city. And so in the wake of that, people started doing studies and looking at who the foreign buyers were. Well, many of them in fact are immigrants, but they're kind of what you'd call a mom and pop investor. They buy one or two units, it's for their retirement income or for their children.

Desmond Brown (28:59):

It's kind of same as what Canadians would do. Good Canadian families

Tess Kalinowski (29:03):

Would do good. It's what anybody would do. Yeah, I mean, it's what I just discussed doing, but I'm too afraid to

Desmond Brown (29:08):

Stay away from that pre-construction stuff though.

Tess Kalinowski (29:13):

And now, of course with the election, one of the things that everybody's talking about is housing demand. And there's this narrative that it's immigrants because of course, Canada's welcoming record numbers of newcomers, we need them very badly to do work here. And how it's immigration that's driving up housing demand and making it an unviable market for so many young Canadians. And I hate these stories that sort of have this sense of xenophobia. So I'm always xenophobia.

Desmond Brown (29:47):

I'm always scapegoating. Yep.

Tess Kalinowski (29:48):

Yeah, I'm always a little bit put off by them. And the other one I would just mention is Airbnb, because although it is part of the real estate world, many investors bought real estate to use it as, as short term rental properties

Desmond Brown (30:05):

A big part of it. And it changed the landscape of rentals

Tess Kalinowski (30:08):

They did, and they, they sucked up homes that perhaps families should have been living in permanently. But just watching that company which was so successful and the whole regulatory regime that grew out of the need to control that has been quite fascinating to me. And I don't know yet that the city's got it nailed.

Desmond Brown (30:32):

Yeah, yeah, they don't.

Tess Kalinowski (30:34):

But I have found that to be one of the most interesting stories I've covered.

Desmond Brown (30:39):

So you were on the beat when there was a lot of change happening, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So we're just about ready to wrap up here. Let's just put real estate aside for a second and take a look at your career as a journalist and what did you love the most about being a reporter?

Tess Kalinowski (31:00):

I love the people. Yeah, I love the people. I never had a beat where I didn't fall head over heels for a bunch of my sources, whether they were sort of the officials or people who are struggling. It's just, and the fact that it gives you such a wholesome view of the world. I mean, I'm telling you that I have fallen, I, I'm crazy about a lot of the people I cover. I'm crazy about them. I would have them over for dinner and love every minute and have a laugh and I exchanged jokes with them, but also just, I'll just end with a story I'm ending on. Correct. And that is the story of a woman who plastered East End hydro poles with her need for an apartment. And I found that story because John Salus, a beaches area real estate operator had tweeted it. And I thought, that's interesting. I wonder who that woman is. And so I called John and I said, you haven't included the contact. And he sent it to me and I tracked her down. And I'm happy to say, this woman who was so desperate one week ago, it now has the prospect of an apartment that she'll move into July 1st, and for the first time, she'll be able to have her grandkids stay overnight.

Desmond Brown (32:21):

And there you go, making a difference. Well, so rewarding.

Tess Kalinowski (32:24):

No, I think Star readers made a difference because it was amazing how many people reached out to say, I don't know if they have a place, but I had good luck here. Can you pass this on to her tips and connections to landlords and so forth. Anything they could do to help people did.

Desmond Brown (32:42):

But it was because of you reaching out to John Salas and getting the ball rolling. And yes, the readers are very generous people. Actually, Torontonians are,

Tess Kalinowski (32:53):

They are. They're good people. They, they're good people and I would never want to portray them any other way.

Desmond Brown (32:59):

So what's next, Tess?

Tess Kalinowski (33:02):

I was afraid you'd ask me that. I'm, my complete absence of ambition at the moment is a bit shocking. Oh, lucky. I'm happy to say I'm, I'm just going to leave it here. I am going to New York for the weekend. I have tickets to a couple of shows. I have a couple of restaurant reservations and I'm very much looking forward to that,

Desmond Brown (33:20):

Tess, enjoy the retirement and whatever your next step's going to be. And it's just been so great to know you and so great that you would come on and give us your time on my podcast, my new podcast a couple years ago. You're one of the first people to just say, yeah, sure, I'll come on. So I thank you. What an honor you for every Well, thank you for everything and it, it's been just, like I said, just so lovely knowing you too. So thank you.

Tess Kalinowski (33:44):

Thank you. And I hope it's not over.

Desmond Brown (33:46):

Yeah, it won't be. And thank you. So that's Tess Kalinowski, the retiring real estate reporter for the Toronto Star,

(33:57):

And that's our latest episode of Sold in the 6ix. I know I'm going to really miss Tess. She's such a great real estate reporter, and I'm sure the Toronto Star is going to find somebody to cover the beat just as well as she did. I'd like to thank my producer, Doug Downs for today's episode, and he's with Stories and Strategies. And if you liked this podcast, please subscribe, leave a rating and a review and send it on to a friend so they can enjoy it too. If you need to get in touch with me, you can email me des@desmondbrown.ca and please feel free to follow me on all of the social media platforms. My handle is Des in the 6ix, and that's number 6 ix. Until next time, I'm Desmond Brown.